Jim's Steaks

[mrrobertstv]

I was watching Food TV, that dining on $40 dollars a day segment an
the host mentioned Jim's Cheese Steak on South Street was located i
South Philly.... Now while I Know it is no where near South PhillY I a
trying to figure what part of town that is... Would you call it Ol
Town of Center City? I moved from Philadelphia back in 1984 so I a
a little rusty trying to remember the neighborhoods ...

-
mrrobertst

Stanley E. Roberts
President /CEO
www.we8there.com
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[Botwinick]

<<

I was watching Food TV, that dining on $40 dollars a day segment andthe host
mentioned Jim's Cheese Steak on South Street was located inSouth Philly.... Now
while I Know it is no where near South PhillY I am trying to figure what part
of town that is... Would you call it OldTown of Center City? remember the
neighborhoods

ooooooooo

Technically anything south of Market is South Phila.
I consider S. St. center city.
The old city of Phila. was about Washington to Race.

[AWH]

South Phila. is defined as below South Street. Center City includes South. Queen village, a neighborhood as opposed to a section of the city is below South. So Jims is in Center City since it has a South Street address. As far as the early bountries, the southern boundry was South Street, then called Cedars. If you notice on the South side of South you will see several theater type buildings, Tower records was one of these. In the early days theaters were not allowed in the City so the were built outsi
de on the edges.

Check out http://www.phila.gov/phils/Docs/otherinfo/placname.htm for names and boundries of places in Philadelphia. Also while there visit the City Archives
Botwinick (***@aol.comnoxjunke) wrote:
: <<
:
: I was watching Food TV, that dining on $40 dollars a day segment andthe host
: mentioned Jim's Cheese Steak on South Street was located inSouth Philly.... Now
: while I Know it is no where near South PhillY I am trying to figure what part
: of town that is... Would you call it OldTown of Center City? remember the
: neighborhoods
:
: ooooooooo
:
: Technically anything south of Market is South Phila.
: I consider S. St. center city.
: The old city of Phila. was about Washington to Race.

[AWH]

South Phila. is defined as below South Street. Center City includes South.
Queen village, a neighborhood as opposed to a section of the city is below South
So Jims is in Center City since it has a South Street address.
As far as the early bountries, the southern boundry was South Street, then called Cedars.

Check out http://www.phila.gov/phils/Docs/otherinfo/placname.htm for names and b
oundries of places in Philadelphia. Also while there visit the City Archives
Botwinick (***@aol.comnoxjunke) wrote:
: <<
:
: I was watching Food TV, that dining on $40 dollars a day segment andthe host
: mentioned Jim's Cheese Steak on South Street was located inSouth Philly.... Now
: while I Know it is no where near South PhillY I am trying to figure what part
: of town that is... Would you call it OldTown of Center City? remember the
: neighborhoods
:
: ooooooooo
:
: Technically anything south of Market is South Phila.
: I consider S. St. center city.
: The old city of Phila. was about Washington to Race.

[bebopper]

Post by Botwinick
I was watching Food TV, that dining on $40 dollars a day segment andthe host
mentioned Jim's Cheese Steak on South Street was located inSouth Philly.... Now
while I Know it is no where near South PhillY I am trying to figure what part
of town that is...

South Street (IMO) has pretty much earned the right to be considered
its own part of town ... Not what it used to be, but in the 70's it
was a real playground ...

- bebopper

[Karen Y Byrd]

Post by Botwinick
<<
I was watching Food TV, that dining on $40 dollars a day segment andthe host
mentioned Jim's Cheese Steak on South Street was located inSouth Philly.... Now
while I Know it is no where near South PhillY I am trying to figure what part
of town that is... Would you call it OldTown of Center City? remember the
neighborhoods
ooooooooo
Technically anything south of Market is South Phila.
I consider S. St. center city.
The old city of Phila. was about Washington to Race.

I have to dig out some old maps....

I'm pretty sure Penn's original "Green Countrie Town"
plan went from where South and Vine Sts are today
from river to river. Essentially it was what
we call Center City today.

Anything south of South was included in the old Swedish settlement
(what used to be called "Queen's Village" and is now just "Queen
Village"). The Swedes tried to create a colony here before
Penn came along in the 1680s.

KByrd

[James Andrews]

Post by Karen Y Byrd
I'm pretty sure Penn's original "Green Countrie Town"
plan went from where South and Vine Sts are today
from river to river. Essentially it was what
we call Center City today.

True.

Post by Karen Y Byrd
Anything south of South was included in the old Swedish settlement
(what used to be called "Queen's Village" and is now just "Queen
Village"). The Swedes tried to create a colony here before
Penn came along in the 1680s.

The area right below South Street wasn't named Queen Village until the
1970s, in honor of Sweden's Queen Christina.

[Karen Y Byrd]

Post by James Andrews

Post by Karen Y Byrd
Anything south of South was included in the old Swedish settlement
(what used to be called "Queen's Village" and is now just "Queen
Village"). The Swedes tried to create a colony here before
Penn came along in the 1680s.

The area right below South Street wasn't named Queen Village until the
1970s, in honor of Sweden's Queen Christina.

Actually I think that's wrong because I went on a splendid, really
revealing, walking house tour of the area last year and there's stuff
in Old Swedes Church that alludes to it being called, "Queen's Village"
a long time ago. Maybe what happened in the 70s was a re-naming
back to what it was originally.

KByrd

[Caldebs1]

Post by Botwinick
was watching Food TV, that dining on $40 dollars a day segment and
the host mentioned Jim's Cheese Steak on South Street was located in
South Philly.... Now while I Know it is no where near South PhillY I am
trying to figure what part of town that is... Would you call it Old
Town of Center City? I moved from Philadelphia back in 1984 so I am
a little rusty trying to remember the neighborhoods .

Jim's Steaks is at 4th and South on the southwestern corner. Technically that
would place it in either Society Hill or Queen Village depending on how you
define those neighborhoods.

[Hillary Israeli]

In <***@mb-m10.aol.com>,
Caldebs1 <***@aol.com> wrote:

*Jim's Steaks is at 4th and South on the southwestern corner. Technically that
*would place it in either Society Hill or Queen Village depending on how you
*define those neighborhoods.

Well, society hill is defined as bounded by Walnut and Pine and 7th and
the Delaware River. So it can't be there. South Philly is the area south
of South, between the Delaware and the Schulkyll, so that can't be it
either. Now, Queen Village I understand is supposed to be the area "below
South, along the Delaware River, to the vicinity of 8th and Carpenter
Streets," so that doesn't seem to me to be the right fit either, although
I have to say I wouldn't know most of Queen Village if it bit me on the
butt.

check this out: http://www.phila.gov/phils/Docs/otherinfo/pname3.htm

[s***@temple.edu]

Post by Hillary Israeli
*Jim's Steaks is at 4th and South on the southwestern corner. Technically that
*would place it in either Society Hill or Queen Village depending on how you
*define those neighborhoods.
Well, society hill is defined as bounded by Walnut and Pine and 7th and
the Delaware River. So it can't be there. South Philly is the area south
of South, between the Delaware and the Schulkyll, so that can't be it
either. Now, Queen Village I understand is supposed to be the area "below
South, along the Delaware River, to the vicinity of 8th and Carpenter
Streets," so that doesn't seem to me to be the right fit either, although
I have to say I wouldn't know most of Queen Village if it bit me on the
butt.
check this out: http://www.phila.gov/phils/Docs/otherinfo/pname3.htm

So that puts Jim's Steaks in South Philly since it IS South of South
Street, if only by a few feet. It seems to me that South Philly does
not really define a specific neighborhood. South Philly is composed
of several neighborhoods such as Queen Village, Bellavista, and so on.

[Exile on Market Street]

Post by Hillary Israeli
*Jim's Steaks is at 4th and South on the southwestern corner. Technically that
*would place it in either Society Hill or Queen Village depending on how you
*define those neighborhoods.
Well, society hill is defined as bounded by Walnut and Pine and 7th and
the Delaware River.

Oops!

Make that Lombard, not Pine, and 8th, not 7th. (And actually, if I'm
not mistaken, the Society Hill Civic Association's territory extends all
the way to South Street.)

There's an easy way to tell if you are on a Society Hill street: Look
for the replica Franklin lights. They are on all streets in the
neighborhood except for 5th and 6th. (The 700 block of Lombard is *not*
part of Society Hill for some strange reason; the 500 block of South 7th
is.)
--
-----------Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia----------
Managing Editor, _Penn Current_ / ***@pobox.upenn.edu
215.898.1423 / fax [phone] / http://pobox.upenn.edu/~smiths/
Got news? Got events? Got stories? Send 'em to ***@pobox.upenn.edu
If you see this line, the opinions expressed are mine, not Penn's

"There is only one thing worse than being talked about, and that is
not being talked about."
---------------------------------------------------------Oscar Wilde--

[Hillary Israeli]

In <c5l558$d4eh$***@netnews.upenn.edu>,
Exile on Market Street <***@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote:

*Hillary Israeli wrote:
*
*> In <***@mb-m10.aol.com>,
*> Caldebs1 <***@aol.com> wrote:
*>
*> *Jim's Steaks is at 4th and South on the southwestern corner. Technically that
*> *would place it in either Society Hill or Queen Village depending on how you
*> *define those neighborhoods.
*>
*> Well, society hill is defined as bounded by Walnut and Pine and 7th and
*> the Delaware River.
*
*Oops!
*
*Make that Lombard, not Pine, and 8th, not 7th. (And actually, if I'm
*not mistaken, the Society Hill Civic Association's territory extends all
*the way to South Street.)

If you say so, but I'm not arguing with the Library Company of
Philadelphia and the staff of the Philadelphia City Archives,
because I figure their references are probably better than mine!
See http://www.phila.gov/phils/Docs/otherinfo/placname.htm which links to
http://www.phila.gov/phils/Docs/otherinfo/pname3.htm which contains the
boundary information I quoted. Their full statement on the subject of
Society Hill reads "Walnut Street to Pine Street, Delaware River to 7th
Street. Southerly portion of original settlement - named for tract given
to the Free Society of Traders by William Penn in 1685." For what it's
worth!

-hillary

[Exile on Market Street]

Post by Hillary Israeli
*
*> Well, society hill is defined as bounded by Walnut and Pine and 7th and
*> the Delaware River.
*
*Oops!
*
*Make that Lombard, not Pine, and 8th, not 7th. (And actually, if I'm
*not mistaken, the Society Hill Civic Association's territory extends all
*the way to South Street.)
If you say so, but I'm not arguing with the Library Company of
Philadelphia and the staff of the Philadelphia City Archives,
because I figure their references are probably better than mine!
See http://www.phila.gov/phils/Docs/otherinfo/placname.htm which links to
http://www.phila.gov/phils/Docs/otherinfo/pname3.htm which contains the
boundary information I quoted. Their full statement on the subject of
Society Hill reads "Walnut Street to Pine Street, Delaware River to 7th
Street. Southerly portion of original settlement - named for tract given
to the Free Society of Traders by William Penn in 1685." For what it's
worth!

Well, for what it's worth, there seems to be a bit o' confusion all around.

I *can* tell you that the Franklin light replicas -- which are unique to
Society Hill (they were installed by the Redevelopment Authority in
1965; many still bear faceplates with this information on their poles)
-- are found throughout the area bounded by Front, the south side of
Walnut or Washington Square, 8th and Lombard streets, the 700 block of
Lombard and 5th and 6th streets excluded.

I can also tell you that the two civic associations that cover the
quadrant of Center City south of Market and east of Broad -- overlap a
bit. The Society Hill Civic Association's territory, according to its
web site, runs from Walnut to Lombard, Front to 8th. The Washington
Square West Civic Association defines its territory as bounded by the
*east* sides of 7th and Broad streets, the north side of Walnut and the
south side of South, which means that the 700 block of all the streets
from Walnut through South, in civic-group terms, lie in *both*
Washington Square West *and* Society Hill.

My brain hurts...
--
-----------Sandy Smith, Exile on Market Street, Philadelphia----------
Managing Editor, _Penn Current_ / ***@pobox.upenn.edu
215.898.1423 / fax [phone] / http://pobox.upenn.edu/~smiths/
Got news? Got events? Got stories? Send 'em to ***@pobox.upenn.edu
If you see this line, the opinions expressed are mine, not Penn's

"There is only one thing worse than being talked about, and that is
not being talked about."
---------------------------------------------------------Oscar Wilde--

[Caldebs1]

Subject: Re: Jim's Steaks
Date: 4/14/04 8:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time
*Jim's Steaks is at 4th and South on the southwestern corner. Technically that
*would place it in either Society Hill or Queen Village depending on how you
*define those neighborhoods.
Well, society hill is defined as bounded by Walnut and Pine and 7th and
the Delaware River. So it can't be there. South Philly is the area south
of South, between the Delaware and the Schulkyll, so that can't be it
either. Now, Queen Village I understand is supposed to be the area "below
South, along the Delaware River, to the vicinity of 8th and Carpenter
Streets," so that doesn't seem to me to be the right fit either, although
I have to say I wouldn't know most of Queen Village if it bit me on the
butt.

For what it's worth, Philadelphia Magazine lists restaurants in the area of
Jim's under the heading South Street/Queen Village.

Buzz

[百厭星]

Post by Caldebs1

Post by Botwinick
was watching Food TV, that dining on $40 dollars a day segment and
the host mentioned Jim's Cheese Steak on South Street was located in
South Philly.... Now while I Know it is no where near South PhillY I am
trying to figure what part of town that is... Would you call it Old
Town of Center City? I moved from Philadelphia back in 1984 so I am
a little rusty trying to remember the neighborhoods .

Jim's Steaks is at 4th and South on the southwestern corner. Technically that
would place it in either Society Hill or Queen Village depending on how you
define those neighborhoods.

Some interesting thing to note:

I was told by some old folks that Soceity Hill and the whole Independence
Hall neighborhood was a dump before 1950's. It was not until the Society
Hill Towers were built in 1964 that the whole neighborhood was revived.

http://www.allandomb.com/html/history_of_towers.html

History

In colonial times this section of Philadelphia was referred to
as Society Hill. The name was derived from the Free Society
of Traders, which had offices and warehouses nearby on
Front Street. At that time, Dock Street was Dock Creek.
Always a commercial district, the area later became the City's
wholesale fruit and produce center. (I guess by that time, the
area had degenerated into something like the Italian Market
on 9th Street. But only a lot dirtier and uglier) In the late
1950's, Society Hill was targeted for restoration by the
Philadelphia City Planning Commission, in cooperation with
the Redevelopment Authority.

The Society Hill Towers and adjacent town houses were
design by architect I.M. Pei. This work earned him several
prestigious design awards including the Honor Award from
the American Institute of Architecture in 1965. The buildings
were completed in 1964.

The Towers was a rental community until its conversion to
a condominium in 1979. At that time, many tenants who
enjoyed the advantages of center city living decided to buy
their apartments. Key factors in their decisions included the
superb waterfront location and proximity to the historic area.

[s***@temple.edu]

Post by 百厭星
I was told by some old folks that Soceity Hill and the whole Independence
Hall neighborhood was a dump before 1950's. It was not until the Society
Hill Towers were built in 1964 that the whole neighborhood was revived.
http://www.allandomb.com/html/history_of_towers.html

Society Hill benefitted from a HUD program that was implemented during
the Nixon Administration. Contractors were offered the opportunity to
purchase delapidated buildings in Society Hill (there were many of those)
for a ridiculously low amount, something like $1.00 provided that the
contractor agreed to rehab the building at his or her expense. My dad
was a contractor prior to his retirement and I saw several of these
offers arrive in the mail. Foolishly, my dad ignored my plea to take
the government up on this deal, but he is not a risk taker. My dad
could have made a mint. Oh well.

That would put it in the '70's. Before that, Society Hill was a dump.
Society Hill Tower helped to bring some gentrification to the area, but
the real impetus for the improvement of that area was that HUD program.

[¦Ê¹½¬P]

Another question. Is Jim's Steaks in the same spot that
Grendel's Lair (a dinner theatre landmark) once occupied?
I think that building was condemned and had to be demolished
completely. The whole South Street was a dump at that time
too.

Post by s***@temple.edu

Post by 百厭星
I was told by some old folks that Soceity Hill and the whole Independence
Hall neighborhood was a dump before 1950's. It was not until the Society
Hill Towers were built in 1964 that the whole neighborhood was revived.
http://www.allandomb.com/html/history_of_towers.html

Society Hill benefitted from a HUD program that was implemented during
the Nixon Administration. Contractors were offered the opportunity to
purchase delapidated buildings in Society Hill (there were many of those)
for a ridiculously low amount, something like $1.00 provided that the
contractor agreed to rehab the building at his or her expense. My dad
was a contractor prior to his retirement and I saw several of these
offers arrive in the mail. Foolishly, my dad ignored my plea to take
the government up on this deal, but he is not a risk taker. My dad
could have made a mint. Oh well.
That would put it in the '70's. Before that, Society Hill was a dump.
Society Hill Tower helped to bring some gentrification to the area, but
the real impetus for the improvement of that area was that HUD program.

[bebopper]

Post by ¦Ê¹½¬P
Another question. Is Jim's Steaks in the same spot that
Grendel's Lair (a dinner theatre landmark) once occupied?
I think that building was condemned and had to be demolished
completely. The whole South Street was a dump at that time
too.

Grendel's Lair was a few blocks West on the same side. The GAP is now
there. That hall had many memorable shows of all genres. Proximity
to Jim's was also a plus on night when one's appetite was not too
suppressed from goings-on at Grendel's.

- bebopper

[Karen Y Byrd]

Post by ¦Ê¹½¬P
Another question. Is Jim's Steaks in the same spot that
Grendel's Lair (a dinner theatre landmark) once occupied?

No. it was further west.

Post by ¦Ê¹½¬P
I think that building was condemned and had to be demolished
completely. The whole South Street was a dump at that time
too.

But it had CHARACTER. Something it woefully lacks now.
Allowing Gap and Starbucks to take root ruined
the street imo.

KByrd

[Karen Y Byrd]

Post by s***@temple.edu

Post by 百厭星
I was told by some old folks that Soceity Hill and the whole Independence
Hall neighborhood was a dump before 1950's. It was not until the Society
Hill Towers were built in 1964 that the whole neighborhood was revived.
http://www.allandomb.com/html/history_of_towers.html

Society Hill benefitted from a HUD program that was implemented during
the Nixon Administration. Contractors were offered the opportunity to
purchase delapidated buildings in Society Hill (there were many of those)
for a ridiculously low amount, something like $1.00 provided that the
contractor agreed to rehab the building at his or her expense. My dad
was a contractor prior to his retirement and I saw several of these
offers arrive in the mail. Foolishly, my dad ignored my plea to take
the government up on this deal, but he is not a risk taker. My dad
could have made a mint. Oh well.
That would put it in the '70's. Before that, Society Hill was a dump.

I remember what Market St looked like, betweem 6th and 5th
before that section of it was torn down to create the first
generation Independence Mall complex.

I have very distinct memories of walking back and forth, mostly along 4th
Street, in the mid 70s to get to the TLA Theater which was then a reperatory
theater showing old movies. That part of Society Hill was not a dump then.

I also had
friends, at the time, who lived in the townhouse development off of
5th, south of Walnut in the early 70s. That part of Society Hill
wasn't a dump then either.

What was a dump up until quite recently was Market St and north of
it to Callowhill. Technically Old City but, man, it was a mess!

KByrd