Philly towing/parking ticket - follow-up

[Liz]

DH and I went to our scheduled appt at the Phila. Traffic Court today at 2
p.m. We were back in our car by 2:40, $125.00 richer (on paper at least)!
Okay, as a self-employed person I lost about $80 of income (plus the cost of
gas, etc.) in the time it took to travel to town, have the hearing, and
return home. But even if it was a true wash, it was worth it. If people
don't fight for what they believe in, the Parking Authority farce will
continue.

Liz

P.S.: Bring pictures if you do feel you're justified to go ahead with a
challenge. The woman who heard our case said that someone had been in
earlier with the same complaint (i.e., being towed from the "valet parking"
space in front of Cuba Libre), but without pictures she didn't realize that
the signage was so confusing.

[Karen Y Byrd]

Post by Liz
DH and I went to our scheduled appt at the Phila. Traffic Court today at 2
p.m. We were back in our car by 2:40, $125.00 richer (on paper at least)!
Okay, as a self-employed person I lost about $80 of income (plus the cost of
gas, etc.) in the time it took to travel to town, have the hearing, and
return home. But even if it was a true wash, it was worth it. If people
don't fight for what they believe in, the Parking Authority farce will
continue.
Liz
P.S.: Bring pictures if you do feel you're justified to go ahead with a
challenge. The woman who heard our case said that someone had been in
earlier with the same complaint (i.e., being towed from the "valet parking"
space in front of Cuba Libre), but without pictures she didn't realize that
the signage was so confusing.

There is a person you can talk to directly at PPA who, as I've read,
can clear up this stuff without having to trek to Phila. Traffic Court.
One of the Inquirer columnists wrote about him maybe 6 months ago.
You can contact, Mr. DeAngelis 215-683-9614

[Liz]

Thank you!!

Post by Karen Y Byrd

Post by Liz
DH and I went to our scheduled appt at the Phila. Traffic Court today at 2
p.m. We were back in our car by 2:40, $125.00 richer (on paper at least)!
Okay, as a self-employed person I lost about $80 of income (plus the cost of
gas, etc.) in the time it took to travel to town, have the hearing, and
return home. But even if it was a true wash, it was worth it. If people
don't fight for what they believe in, the Parking Authority farce will
continue.
Liz
P.S.: Bring pictures if you do feel you're justified to go ahead with a
challenge. The woman who heard our case said that someone had been in
earlier with the same complaint (i.e., being towed from the "valet parking"
space in front of Cuba Libre), but without pictures she didn't realize that
the signage was so confusing.

There is a person you can talk to directly at PPA who, as I've read,
can clear up this stuff without having to trek to Phila. Traffic Court.
One of the Inquirer columnists wrote about him maybe 6 months ago.
You can contact, Mr. DeAngelis 215-683-9614

[Karen Y Byrd]

Post by Liz
Thank you!!

Post by Karen Y Byrd

Post by Liz
DH and I went to our scheduled appt at the Phila. Traffic Court today at 2
p.m. We were back in our car by 2:40, $125.00 richer (on paper at least)!
Okay, as a self-employed person I lost about $80 of income (plus the cost of
gas, etc.) in the time it took to travel to town, have the hearing, and
return home. But even if it was a true wash, it was worth it. If people
don't fight for what they believe in, the Parking Authority farce will
continue.
Liz
P.S.: Bring pictures if you do feel you're justified to go ahead with a
challenge. The woman who heard our case said that someone had been in
earlier with the same complaint (i.e., being towed from the "valet parking"
space in front of Cuba Libre), but without pictures she didn't realize that
the signage was so confusing.

There is a person you can talk to directly at PPA who, as I've read,
can clear up this stuff without having to trek to Phila. Traffic Court.
One of the Inquirer columnists wrote about him maybe 6 months ago.
You can contact, Mr. DeAngelis 215-683-9614

I doubt this will make you feel better about what happened to you. But I read
in the yesterday's New York Times that basically unjustified towing
is going on in many areas of the country. Small infractions will
get your vehicle towed even from private property.

KByrd

[happy_rooster]

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 17:02:26 +0000 (UTC), Karen Y Byrd

Post by Karen Y Byrd

Post by Liz
Thank you!!

Post by Karen Y Byrd

Post by Liz
DH and I went to our scheduled appt at the Phila. Traffic Court today at 2
p.m. We were back in our car by 2:40, $125.00 richer (on paper at least)!
Okay, as a self-employed person I lost about $80 of income (plus the
cost
of
gas, etc.) in the time it took to travel to town, have the hearing, and
return home. But even if it was a true wash, it was worth it. If people
don't fight for what they believe in, the Parking Authority farce will
continue.
Liz
P.S.: Bring pictures if you do feel you're justified to go ahead with a
challenge. The woman who heard our case said that someone had been in
earlier with the same complaint (i.e., being towed from the "valet parking"
space in front of Cuba Libre), but without pictures she didn't realize that
the signage was so confusing.

There is a person you can talk to directly at PPA who, as I've read,
can clear up this stuff without having to trek to Phila. Traffic Court.
One of the Inquirer columnists wrote about him maybe 6 months ago.
You can contact, Mr. DeAngelis 215-683-9614

I doubt this will make you feel better about what happened to you. But I read
in the yesterday's New York Times that basically unjustified towing
is going on in many areas of the country. Small infractions will
get your vehicle towed even from private property.
KByrd

I would agree with you. But only to vehicles with out-
of-state license plaque. It is because a lot of localities
found out-of-towners easy preys. I had a car towed in
dare county, NC(where nags head and the outerbanks are
located) a few years ago.You have to pay and get your car
out with no contest. Are you going to appear in court
in NC a few weeks or months down the road to argue your
case? I don't think so.

[happy_rooster]

Post by Liz
DH and I went to our scheduled appt at the Phila. Traffic Court today at 2
p.m. We were back in our car by 2:40, $125.00 richer (on paper at least)!
Okay, as a self-employed person I lost about $80 of income (plus the cost of
gas, etc.) in the time it took to travel to town, have the hearing, and
return home. But even if it was a true wash, it was worth it. If people
don't fight for what they believe in, the Parking Authority farce will
continue.
Liz
P.S.: Bring pictures if you do feel you're justified to go ahead with a
challenge. The woman who heard our case said that someone had been in
earlier with the same complaint (i.e., being towed from the "valet parking"
space in front of Cuba Libre), but without pictures she didn't realize that
the signage was so confusing.

It really all depends, I mean it depends on who is the adjudicator.
There was a time I parked at Locust street right behind the Jefferson
hospital. As far as I know, you don't have to feed parking meters
on Sunday. But not for the spot I parked which required me to feed
meters even on a Sunday. However, the sign to inform this was completely
defaced. There were black paints on the sign that no one could decipher
what was written on it. Naturally, when I came back, I found a parking
ticket on my windshield. I took some pictures to show the sign was defaced
and filed a complaint. At the hearing when I showed the pictures, the
adjudicator denied their validities. He said that I should have check all
the signs in the area rather than just the sign where my car was parked.
(tell me, how many people would do that?) Of course, I was furious. I
filed
an appeal together with my evidence but was rejected without my presence.
They told me that I would hire a lawyer to file a complaint at the Court of
Common Pleas. Of course, I would rather pay a $25 fine than to spend $500
to hire a lawyer to file a complaint. PPA won in this case.

Now, I mean it all depends on the adjudcator. I got off in some cases with
a lot more fuzzy evidence and sometimes even no evidence. That time I
believed
I had the strongest evidence and I lost the case.

[Liz]

Post by happy_rooster
It really all depends, I mean it depends on who is the adjudicator.
There was a time I parked at Locust street right behind the Jefferson
hospital. As far as I know, you don't have to feed parking meters
on Sunday. But not for the spot I parked which required me to feed
meters even on a Sunday. However, the sign to inform this was completely
defaced. There were black paints on the sign that no one could decipher
what was written on it. Naturally, when I came back, I found a parking
ticket on my windshield. I took some pictures to show the sign was defaced
and filed a complaint. At the hearing when I showed the pictures, the
adjudicator denied their validities. He said that I should have check all
the signs in the area rather than just the sign where my car was parked.
(tell me, how many people would do that?) Of course, I was furious. I
filed
an appeal together with my evidence but was rejected without my presence.
They told me that I would hire a lawyer to file a complaint at the Court of
Common Pleas. Of course, I would rather pay a $25 fine than to spend $500
to hire a lawyer to file a complaint. PPA won in this case.
Now, I mean it all depends on the adjudcator. I got off in some cases with
a lot more fuzzy evidence and sometimes even no evidence. That time I
believed
I had the strongest evidence and I lost the case.

Interesting, and although I can see the adjudicator's side of the case I
think he should have cut you some slack. Our case was different from yours,
however. We were parked at a sign with overlapping times, i.e., "Valet
parking only Mon thru Sun., 5:00 p.m. until 3:00 a.m.," and then right under
that in larger print, "Meter Parking Mon. thru Sun., 8:00 a.m. til 8:00
p.m." The adjudicator we had agreed with us that the bottom part of the
sign negated the upper part and ruled in our favor. But her opinion might
have been influenced by the fact that we were pleasant, polite, and
reasonable seniors (both 62), and maybe her lunch was particularly good that
day and we were very lucky. <G>

[happy_rooster]

Post by Liz

Post by happy_rooster
It really all depends, I mean it depends on who is the adjudicator.
There was a time I parked at Locust street right behind the Jefferson
hospital. As far as I know, you don't have to feed parking meters
on Sunday. But not for the spot I parked which required me to feed
meters even on a Sunday. However, the sign to inform this was completely
defaced. There were black paints on the sign that no one could decipher
what was written on it. Naturally, when I came back, I found a parking
ticket on my windshield. I took some pictures to show the sign was defaced
and filed a complaint. At the hearing when I showed the pictures, the
adjudicator denied their validities. He said that I should have check all
the signs in the area rather than just the sign where my car was parked.
(tell me, how many people would do that?) Of course, I was furious. I
filed
an appeal together with my evidence but was rejected without my presence.
They told me that I would hire a lawyer to file a complaint at the Court of
Common Pleas. Of course, I would rather pay a $25 fine than to spend $500
to hire a lawyer to file a complaint. PPA won in this case.
Now, I mean it all depends on the adjudcator. I got off in some cases with
a lot more fuzzy evidence and sometimes even no evidence. That time I
believed
I had the strongest evidence and I lost the case.

Interesting, and although I can see the adjudicator's side of the case I
think he should have cut you some slack. Our case was different from yours,
however. We were parked at a sign with overlapping times, i.e., "Valet
parking only Mon thru Sun., 5:00 p.m. until 3:00 a.m.," and then right under
that in larger print, "Meter Parking Mon. thru Sun., 8:00 a.m. til 8:00
p.m." The adjudicator we had agreed with us that the bottom part of the
sign negated the upper part and ruled in our favor.

Very much completely up to the discretion of the adjudicator.
The statement can be construed as no contradiction whatever.
The legalese of the sign can mean: meter parking is enforced
8:00AM - 8:00PM all the time. But during the period from 5:00PM
to 3:00AM, those parking spots are completely reserved for
valet parking. During those hours between 5:00PM to 8:00PM,
only valet parking can use those spots. And even valet parking
has to feed the parking meters during those three hours. If
you came across an adjudicator with such a interpretation of
the signage, there is no way you can get off the hook.

Now in the ordinary court of law, we are presumed innocent unless
we are found guilty. Because of the ambiguity of wording and in my
case, the sign got defaced, we should be exonerated. But not the
case in a parking hearing or in the IRS tax court. We are presumed
guilty unless we prove ourselves to be innocent. The burden of proof
is on us.

Post by Liz
But her opinion might
have been influenced by the fact that we were pleasant, polite, and
reasonable seniors (both 62), and maybe her lunch was particularly good that
day and we were very lucky. <G>

Very very much so. If you are in rapport with the adjudicator,
many times they will just let you go. I remember one time I was
in a hearing, the adjudicator and I started a little chitchat
before starting the case and and his actual cassette recording.
He noticed that I was from his ward and was encouraging me
to participate in a political activity he was organizing. You
know what. I got exonerated.

[Liz]

"happy_rooster" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@news.verizon.net...

<snip>

Post by happy_rooster
Very very much so. If you are in rapport with the adjudicator,
many times they will just let you go. I remember one time I was
in a hearing, the adjudicator and I started a little chitchat
before starting the case and and his actual cassette recording.
He noticed that I was from his ward and was encouraging me
to participate in a political activity he was organizing. You
know what. I got exonerated.

To repeat an oft quoted aphorism: "There oughtta be a law."

Liz